Is this what this is about?

[ted johnson]

Here we go, decending to smart-a$$ comments. I, and I'd be willing to bet, the majority of REAR readers/posters, will agree with the Flandoman, Tom, Steve O', Rob, Bob, and for that matter, me. Keep your vintage/modern hermaphrodites on the VKA side of the house. Nobody at REAR means for you to keep your '61 GoKart 800 exactly as it came from the factory. Most of us traded everything from steering wheels to engine mounts to paint jobs for aftermarket items in the "day". I remember putting on Go Power wheels, better sprockets and a lighter axle on my 800, even before it got off the workbench. Nobody has any issue with putting an Mc40 on a '60 Wasp, even though they are a couple years apart in time. Heck, half the karts running have '91's and 101's on them. The issue is in putting completely inappropriate wheels, tires, modern fuel tanks and the like on said '61 GoKart 800 and trying to pass it off as "vintage". TJ

[Rob Voska]

Here's the link to this video for anyone wondering what this thread is about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2tYUf8nLJU

[Pruit Ginsberg]

Thanks for the link. After reading 6 pages, it helps to see it with one's own eyes.

[david a luciani]

that video isn't what i personally am talking about.
to be clear i have a problem with tonka toy looking modern/vintage karts.
to me they aren't keeping the spirit of the time period the vintage karts were made.

i do understand the concerns posted here but i'm confused with attacks on a guy with vintage correct kart that wrecked when going fast.
His club has raced a vintage class for many years and they do drive hard.
they actually still run a weekly series for vintage in their club.
ALL with the insurance companies knowledge.

the race posted is in the spirit vintage karts both of the time and the karts.
fast vintage correct karts going fast on a track that ran series back then.
sadly there were a few mistakes made which led to a wreck.

IT WAS AN ACCIDENT FROM A WET TRACK ,POORLY PLACED FINISH LINE' AND BAD DRIVER DECISIONS.

NOT A WRECK CAUSED BY USING THE WRONG EQUIPMENT ON A VINTAGE KART.


my first though was about the driver being ok then i helped him get a new front axle to fix his kart.
which he has already done and the kart has been back out on the track running again.

For reasons i'm just not understanding Everybody here seems to want to tie him in with the enhancement boys and believe me he's not about enhancing his karts with modern dodads.

maybe we should have offered some advise about resetting the finish line .
that would have been nice and maybe not race when the track is wet .

finally,
it puzzles me why we ignore or don't post the accidents that happen when the modern equipment hung on a vintage kart wrecks a vintage kart.
just from casual conversation i've heard about three at recent events.
somebody went on their head at least twice from karts bicycling in the corners.
is it because there's no video?

Sorry about the rant but i know you guys and i'd never considered any of you mean before.
dave

[johnny strawser]

Bob, was this thread the most responded to ever posted ? 6 pages of hits thats good no?

[Rob Voska]

I have no idea. Before we lost the old board in a server crash we had some pretty long threads.

[johnny strawser]

Just for the record a slower track layout will be offered in 2012 . I should say tighter layout . The racers can then pick the layout they want to compete on. Some discussion was done on using a dial in system and match the drivers up in groups by lap times . A group, B group, maybe a C group all based on lap times and pentalties for running under posted time . Mifflintown is a 26 sec track for a good 100 cc WKA stock Mac 91 B1 on a Bug Stinger in a 1972 config.

[david a luciani]

i am doing the same format for cuddeback in New York.
since many guys are wt.challenged anymore it makes no sense to make grids by engine size.
and i'm NOT gonna do engine techs or scales!!!

the whole package of driver skill ,engine power , kart wt. is considered by lap times.
sure people can cheat and sandbag but if they want to win that bad i say let them.
but penalizing sandbaggers is also part of what we're doing.

you might also consider fastest times starting at the back with slowest at the pole.
my aim is to make the "race" more interesting.
people with skills shouldn't be bothered by this format.

if you're really a hot shoe threading through a crowd should be easy.
if however you run by the skirt the rules handbook your faster engine won't help as much.
if nothing else everybody will be running with karts at about the same speed potential.
dave

[steveohara]

Johnny, David,

Great to hear that you guys are planning to try something different from the typical class structure.
I raced in my early years with the Road Runners Kart Club at the original Go Kart Raceway in Azusa, Ca under a format that was almost entirely performance based rather than equipment centric. The club consistently drew 150 entries every month and it was the best racing and most enjoyable atmosphere I ever saw in karting. It was 1968 when I started and there were guys still running Rathmans and Simplex chassis and others with Chapparral and Tecnos. The club president, Tony Maglizzi had two sons racing the jr class and he would not allow them to run anything other than a Mc10! Of course Tony's Mc 10s were not your average Mc 10 but he chose to have his boys run them to support his premise that the club was a "run what ya brung" group and you didn't need to go out and buy expensive up to date stuff to race. There were no weights, tire rules, or tech for other than safety and the competitors were grouped in classes of 10 to 12 karts based on qualifying times. Once the groups were established by qualifying the grids were inverted so the faster guys had to start in the back. Second heat was inverted based on finishing position in the first heat and third heat was inverted based on points accumulated in first two heats. If you were a hot shoe you started last every time! The racing was clean and the format produced some of the most successful kart drivers of all time. I believe the jr class that I started in in 1968 with Kyle and Tony Adkins, Rod Whorton, Howard Combee, Rocky Buff and others I just can't remember now went on to claim over 50 IKF Sprint National Titles in the years that followed. There was never an urgument over tech.... there was no tech! No one ever weighed in light.... there were no scales. Nobody got caught with tires that were too soft or the wrong shape and you could run any clutch you wanted. Everyone had fun without any hassle about their stuff.
I really hope the concept takes hold for the vintage karting scene so we can stop the constant fussing over technical details that have virtually nothing to do with the purpose of the events which are first and foremost social, not competative.
Tony used to run the groups in slow to fast order and if there was someone that had obviously sandbagged in qualifying he would move them up to a faster group. I never heard anyone complain about being moved up... it was a badge of honor to be in the faster group!
Good luck with your efforts.
Steve O'Hara

[Butch Kavanagh]

the akron(oh) karting club operated 3 different tracks in the 60-70's using the time trial system for senior drivers. class system for rookies-junior. our average was 40-50 karts. had its problems but it seemed to work well for the type of karter we drew. a big advantage was the cost factor. we raced weekly and some of us just didn't have the money or time to keep our equipment 'sharp' so we always had a class to race. but that was racing back then and only 40-50 week. today, vintage events are a different breed. different money. different atitude. all is good