Is this what this is about?

[Rob Voska]

Thanks for keeping this nice without personal attacks as you were asked........ Funny thing is this has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the attitude of playing with old go karts something we all love. We are going on our tenth year of one of largest events in the world. We get international exposure in Karting magazine & NKN with great writers like Frank Weir.

Anyone can see that guy in second was gaining on the guy in first. The guy in second positioned his kart so he was on the inside & got a run and track position on the leader. Clearly the crash was avoidable but sadly it wasn't to be. I guess on track respect for yourself, others or their equipment is out of the question....

So again I ask is this what WE want? Why do I ask it like this? Because as most everyone knows Bob & I are so busy we rarely take a kart to our own event anymore. We are host's & try to provide a fun event for our guests / friends giving them what they want.

As a promoter of an event I sure don't want any incidents like this at any of my events. I don't want to see anyone get hurt, equipment get damaged or bad publicity in general.

Ask anyone how hard I run any of my karts. I'll go as hard as they drag my big ass around there. FYI when we "raced" our vintage karts we ran in the front & didn't really have any trouble.

After seeing someone laying in the middle of the straightaway because of someone else's ego & bastardized equipment at Quincy the first year. The organization leadership was lacking & afraid to stand up & put an end to what was quickly getting out of hand. After working with the prez it became obvious that he was just another empty suit that wanted a title & didn't want to do any work or solve any problems. They chose to be "inclusive" & we decided to be open to anyone that wanted to run an old gokart. That's where the slogan "Run'em the way they ran'um" came from. Some like it & some don't. But I'll tell ya what..... I won't cross the street let alone the country to see a flathead 4 cycle or Yamaha run...... A few others have started their own old kart deal also so I guess we aren't the only ones seeing what this is about.

Sorry but your wrong about the membership thing..... we don't & have never had any members...... just happy friends enjoying old karts, selling parts & enjoying themselves.

As for your wanting to RACE.... there are a lot of classes in modern karting where crashing is accepted. I just got a guy started in Yamaha last season & this year he bought a TAG. Wanna ask him what a new 40mm rear axle costs?

[Ronald Cubel]

Quote


"Ron your mistake is not understanding what a "true" racer is about"


Thanks after 40 year racing you figured this out for me.

Rob, I would stop this tread before this guy tells us all about the National Championships he has won.

Ron

[Dominic Salvato]

With a high speed track its bound to happen. These guy's were looking for more top speed in their gearing. They needed a couple chicanes.

[Carl Haydt]

Rob,I feel as it DOES have to do with me as it was me in that video you published as your example.

I'm also taking offense to the asumption people are making that driving a kart fast means that the driver has "something to prove to himself"

As I said before the "split" between the vintage karting community is sad and I do not want to engage in anything that would cause this split to become wider. I personally do not agree with some of the rules your club has adopted and applaud some you have! Our club has adopted some rules for our vintage class (if you want to race) to keep the karts equal but we will allow any "period correct" kart to turn some laps if it passes safety tech. (foreign motors,foreign chassis,repops,ect) However that being said there is ONE rule that is strictly enforced: NO MODERN TIRES OR WHEELS!!! Our goal is to get those people with old karts in their sheds,basements ect to bring 'em out & run 'em!

In spite of the different views we share,I plan on attending several vintage karting events this year (with or without a kart) even ones organized by REAR. I don't have a problem playing by your rules as I respect the amount of work it takes to make an event actually happen! It will be nice to put a face to the names of all the people who I have delt with over the years.

As for the "incident" between Andy & I, It was just that....an incident! Nobody wants that to happen,nobody plans on having that happen,but it CAN happen even if it's not actually a "race" To put a bunch of open wheel karts on a track & not expect any contact is what you might like to have happen but to think it will NEVER happen is unrealistic!
Up here we're defintely different in our attitude to vintage kart racing as we accept the risks as they did back then & as the promoter of race said "boy's have at it-go kart style"
It happened & nobody was hurt. When Andy & I were standing talking about it he said to me "I knew you wouldn't lift" and I said to him after thinking about it awhile "you know if I had to do it over again,I wouldn't change a thing!" Simply put? It was two racers racing! As for the damaged kart,it'll get fixed,vintage or not-it's only a go kart! Besides I had 4 Foxes in my trailer that day for that race so I had spares.
Matter of fact all the way home the only thing that really bothered me was.................................the fact that I ruined my left sock & now I won't have a complete set!

You keep doing your thing & we'll keep doing ours! But we can still exist together! Carl

Ps: Ron your arrogance becomes you!

[david a luciani]

and i was wondering what ever happened to all the threads on where vintage karting should be going!!!
i wasn't gonna comment but i'll just say this.

first it seems Carl is mixing up Rob and Bobs SINGLE once a year event with the VKA stuff.
and it seems Rob is thinking that Carl is a fat tire modern parts fool.
neither is true.

i know both guys and you're alot more the same than different.


anyway wrecking a kart that bad does suck and it was a shame to see it go in.
second i know Carl will be fixing it as i sent him my axle for that reason.

also i would say that the track was a little to blame as wet corners can be pretty dicey.
what i heard happened was Carl got over into the wet part they'd been avoiding the whole race on the last turn.
running on damp or wet pavement is dicey.

i've done that as recently as this spring and just playing around in my driveway and street nearly ruined my 59 rupp.
i wasn't even going that fast maybe 25 mph slide on a corner but the wet payment just threw me sideways.
nearly flipped the kart curbing it sideways before i got it under control at a whole 20-25 mph.
when that happens there's nothing to do but take your lumps.

as far as racing/restoring goes i have mixed feelings.
so i'm gonna say we're all over 21 so if a couple of guys wanna race hard and it's allowed it's a free country.
also if a guy wants spend all his time and effort building the perfect trailer queen or runner that's fine too.

i think both sides are against what VKA is up to.
ie: fat tires non vintage era correct stuff basically a vintage engine/frame sort of running modern everything.
the whole vka thinging that we'll allow what ever to run, we just want to fill up the track with paying customers.
then it's more a business and NOT a HOBBY.
i personally do this for fun and the people i get to meet.

what i'd like to see is Rob and Bob wandering over to the Pa. track as they are FAST FAST FAST.
that would be neat and interesting to see.
just a little thought.

dave

[ted johnson]

Good post, Dave. It's correct to point out that Rob and Bob have to do with ONLY the single TBO event at Fremont. There is no "club". It's also correct to say that EVERYONE who attends has a lot of fun and fellowship. Where else do you get to sit down and eat your (good) chicken lunch under a green Ohio tree with karting legends, with no pomp or ceremony? At TBO they're just karters, not celebs. It's also correct to say that both Rob and Bob can drive the wheels off a kart when there's time enough for them to get on the track. It's awful hard to get out there when you're running the event. The whole point to this thread was that we all love to go like "H", but there are lots of things to watch out for. There are a lot of "do gooders" out there who would love to make a big stink about how unsafe vingage karts are without all the nerf bars and plastic crud making the karts resemble inverted bathtubs. Racing on the track when there were a few puddles was probably a mistake. It might ought to have been dried first. Slicks don't even like the morning dew. My point was that all it's going to take is ONE serious publicised accident for the insurance gurus to refuse coverage to ALL vintage karting events. Please, let's just take a bit more care!
PS: There is no "split" between the different groups, just differences of opinion. Most of us go to all the other events and have a great time.

[steve miller]

the old saying ..theres always a choice ..i dont see anyone forcing anyone to race ..and also dont see any wrong if you just wanna ride somethin and show it ..i live both sides.. i race every weekend (and some times tear stuff up )and i try to attend the shows i can and just ride ..i guess im two faced .!! bottom line i enjoy myself ..rather im just showing something, just riding,or if i go out and tangle with hay bales,or my racin buddy its my stuff my choice ..

[steveohara]

Carl,

You are a pretty good sport! If I had been taken out by a bonehead move like the one put on you I would have taken the twisted up frame and wrapped it around the other guys neck!
Take a look at the two screen caps below from the white flag lap and the checkered flag lap with attention to the line the passing kart took after crossing the finish line. In the two pics look at the relative position of the karts to the white line on the track. On the white flag lap you are straddling the line and there is still room to your left to pass with ease. On the checkered flag lap the other driver has come along side you and simply failed to turn as the track bends left. He has not only taken your line, he has pushed you so far right that his kart is a full kart width to the right of your line the previous lap leaving you no place to go other than where you ended up.
To me that is inexcusable negligence on the part of the passing driver and it is made even worse by the fact that it took place after the checkered flag was waved and the race was over.
I think the answer to Rob's question is a clear NO regardless of which event or organization is involved.
I am a racer and love to drive fast but that kind of driving has no place in any kind of racing, period.
Glad you didn't get hurt.
Steve O'Hara

[John Miller]

There are racers & then there are posers.

I'd rather watch a race than a parade.

[Dan Flanders]

its my stuff my choice

Yep, your stuff your choice. Be aware that YOUR choices potentially affect EVERYONE ELSE'S ability to enjoy the hobby. I am not saying there isn't room for some friendly, spirited, slicing and dicing but all out full contact demolition derby style racing isn't what vintage karting is all about. Bottom line it is about the KARTS NOT the DRIVERS.

There are racers & then there are posers.

So anyone that doesn't subscribe to your view of vintage karting is a poser? What a steaming pile of drivel. You say you'd rather watch a race...Hell, I would rather be out there driving no matter what my speed or ability. If that makes me a poser, so be it. I don't know what events you're going to, but I've never seen a parade lap.