Fuel Recommendations
Moderator: Rob Voska
- Dan Flanders
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Fuel Recommendations
What type of race gas/blends do folks use...
Every time I've had occasion to buy gas, I would head down to Emmick, hand them my fuel jug they would fill it up and away I went. Now, I am faced with finding a new source and I don't know what type to look for.
I imagine that the local motorcycle shop will have VP or similar brand for the dirt bikes. Is there a specific blend that is widely available and works well with a stock 820. I imagine the 820 will run on just about anything, but I've always run on the higher octane.
Had planned to switch to dual-carbs on alky, but I've run out of time to set up and test so I'll go with reliable over fast any day. Don't want to drive 800 miles one way and not drive the kart...
Thanks,
Dan
Every time I've had occasion to buy gas, I would head down to Emmick, hand them my fuel jug they would fill it up and away I went. Now, I am faced with finding a new source and I don't know what type to look for.
I imagine that the local motorcycle shop will have VP or similar brand for the dirt bikes. Is there a specific blend that is widely available and works well with a stock 820. I imagine the 820 will run on just about anything, but I've always run on the higher octane.
Had planned to switch to dual-carbs on alky, but I've run out of time to set up and test so I'll go with reliable over fast any day. Don't want to drive 800 miles one way and not drive the kart...
Thanks,
Dan
Re: Fuel Recommendations
I've had great results with Cam 2 Purple.
- steveohara
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Re: Fuel Recommendations
Dan,
Save your money, the high octane gas is not necessary or beneficial in your motor unless you have jacked the compression way up. Run 91 octane unleaded from your local gas station with at least 8oz per gallon of pure castor and you will get excellent results. The higher octane fuels require higher engine temps and leaner mixtures to run clean so they are more sensative to needle settings. The pump gas will run well over a wider range of temps and jet settings than the race blends and you'll see no difference in power output.
Of course, if you find the time to get set up for alky there is nothing better for your motor. It will run faster, cooler and cleaner than any gas and it is worth the little extra trouble of a rinse at the end of the weekend to protect against the corrosion and condensation problems that come from leaving alky in the motor.
Regards,
Steve O'Hara
Save your money, the high octane gas is not necessary or beneficial in your motor unless you have jacked the compression way up. Run 91 octane unleaded from your local gas station with at least 8oz per gallon of pure castor and you will get excellent results. The higher octane fuels require higher engine temps and leaner mixtures to run clean so they are more sensative to needle settings. The pump gas will run well over a wider range of temps and jet settings than the race blends and you'll see no difference in power output.
Of course, if you find the time to get set up for alky there is nothing better for your motor. It will run faster, cooler and cleaner than any gas and it is worth the little extra trouble of a rinse at the end of the weekend to protect against the corrosion and condensation problems that come from leaving alky in the motor.
Regards,
Steve O'Hara
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Re: Fuel Recommendations
Steve,
I'm enjoying reading about the vintage items owned by everyone in their posts. Do you not still have the Hartman that you did so well with?
Mark
I'm enjoying reading about the vintage items owned by everyone in their posts. Do you not still have the Hartman that you did so well with?
Mark
- Dan Flanders
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Re: Fuel Recommendations
Thanks a bunch Rob & Steve.... Steve, good info to know before I plunked down $50 on a tin of fuel. Rob, I'll file your recommendation for the Sunoco fuels for later use with a Parilla motored kart.
Steve, you mentioned using straight castor oil any particular reason for not running a synthetic? How about alcohol, do you run the same mix? Do you add acetone and is there any benefit to adding acetone?
Good stuff to know especially for us newer people, I appreciate the help.
Dan
Steve, you mentioned using straight castor oil any particular reason for not running a synthetic? How about alcohol, do you run the same mix? Do you add acetone and is there any benefit to adding acetone?
Good stuff to know especially for us newer people, I appreciate the help.
Dan
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Re: Fuel Recommendations
Hi, Gang. it's been years since I mixed Alky/Castor myself for an open fan-cooled engine. I always used Chuck West's or Klotz premix. Alky/Castor ratio recommendations for newly-rebuilt and for broken-in engines? Thanks, and see you all in Fremont! Ted Johnson
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Re: Fuel Recommendations
Dan, Steve's recomendations are right on, we run 91 octane pump gas with 6 oz Burris castor in our Mac 91 and Alky with 6 oz Burris castor in the West Bends and also my Super 58. You don't need more octane than the engine can use, only reason to go to a race gas is for a consistent fuel as pump gas is not always the same from station to station or is a seasonal mix. Sometimes I use 2 oz/gal of acetone as a blender but that is only needed in cold weather, the new casters, Burris, Blendzal, Klotz etc blend well with alky. I did tech at lots of IKF Grand Nationals and every engine that used a synthetic oil was dry, this was roadracing so the loads may have been heavier than sprint.
This was my experience, you go from there. When we went to a spec fuel in Region 11 sprint we used castor oil at 5 oz/gal with ERC 110 race gas, and never was an engine lost because of lubrication.
Louie
This was my experience, you go from there. When we went to a spec fuel in Region 11 sprint we used castor oil at 5 oz/gal with ERC 110 race gas, and never was an engine lost because of lubrication.
Louie
- steveohara
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1965 Dart Gran Prix twin Mc100s
1963 Bug Scorpion ESll Mc45
Re: Fuel Recommendations
Hi Guys,
You can run less oil as Louie says and 99% of the time it will be more than adequate. Once in a while extra oil will save you from disaster or minimize the damage if things go wrong. In motors with poor ring seal due to wear or bad fitting parts extra oil can help get a little better seal but the effect is minimal on performance under load. There is no real downside to running lots of oil other than an occasional fouled plug.
I prefer castor ( I use Burris in both gas and alky) as it is generally a better lubricant than synthetics. That being said, I am told that there are some recently developed synthetics that perform much better than the brands we tested back in the 70s. Castor is a proven product in Macs and WBs and you can't go wrong with any of the common brands.
I used all Francisco Labs products back in the late 70s when we won all the Duffy's and the mix I used was very heavy on the oil. I used a premixed blend they called HiRev and I believe it was close to 10% oil!!! It was desinged for high revving motors that were run under heavy continuous loads so there was a big emphasis on cooling and lubrication in the blend. Francisco had a few other blends that made more power but they were not as consistent in different weather conditions and such.
Regards,
Steve O'Hara.
One more thing..... No, I don't have the Hartman chassis I used to win all the Duffy's.... it got wadded up at Laguna Seca in 1983 at the IKF Nationals. A biddy of mine was racing for the lead in Yamaha Amatuer Heavy and got run into the fence by a lapped kart in turn 11 with a few laps to go... bummer, it was a great kart. I do have two of the National winning 91B1s in my collection.... I got four of them back from Jack Hunt in Oklahoma about 5 years back and I sold two to Jay Mendoza for his twin.
You can run less oil as Louie says and 99% of the time it will be more than adequate. Once in a while extra oil will save you from disaster or minimize the damage if things go wrong. In motors with poor ring seal due to wear or bad fitting parts extra oil can help get a little better seal but the effect is minimal on performance under load. There is no real downside to running lots of oil other than an occasional fouled plug.
I prefer castor ( I use Burris in both gas and alky) as it is generally a better lubricant than synthetics. That being said, I am told that there are some recently developed synthetics that perform much better than the brands we tested back in the 70s. Castor is a proven product in Macs and WBs and you can't go wrong with any of the common brands.
I used all Francisco Labs products back in the late 70s when we won all the Duffy's and the mix I used was very heavy on the oil. I used a premixed blend they called HiRev and I believe it was close to 10% oil!!! It was desinged for high revving motors that were run under heavy continuous loads so there was a big emphasis on cooling and lubrication in the blend. Francisco had a few other blends that made more power but they were not as consistent in different weather conditions and such.
Regards,
Steve O'Hara.
One more thing..... No, I don't have the Hartman chassis I used to win all the Duffy's.... it got wadded up at Laguna Seca in 1983 at the IKF Nationals. A biddy of mine was racing for the lead in Yamaha Amatuer Heavy and got run into the fence by a lapped kart in turn 11 with a few laps to go... bummer, it was a great kart. I do have two of the National winning 91B1s in my collection.... I got four of them back from Jack Hunt in Oklahoma about 5 years back and I sold two to Jay Mendoza for his twin.
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Re: Fuel Recommendations
Steve, That had to be a sad day in '83. I think that chassis would look good hanging on your wall even in a "wadded" condition.
Mark
Mark
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Re: Fuel Recommendations
what happen to emmick? or just not selling fuel?
jerry
jerry