40 years from now on REAR

[david martin]

40 years from now on REAR
will a vintage kart still be
from 1956 to 1972 ?
it seems to me that at some point this limit would need to be raised (or not)
.
how do you guys think the karting community will define "vintage" in 40 years
.
this is food for thought and friendly discussion

[Rob Voska]

Most of you old farts will be dead! Who cares?

[Ronald Cubel]

That would make me about 100 should be done with this current resto by then Rob will only be 85 though Ron

[Dean Seavers]

I'll be 80 (or doing laps at the kart track in the sky) and Adam will be 49!

David-

I think a group of folks will come along and decide they want to play with post-vintage karts and they'll organize a get-together. Folks who are like-minded will bring their post-vintage karts to that meet. Heck, someone could do that right now and decide to have a get together for '72-92 karts. No one is stopping them. Ed put on an enduro event that allowed karts through the 80's. I just don't think the group of folks that are putting energy into the meets that currently exist feel the need to change things. I think vintage tends to be a generational thing for most folks- what they remember or ran when they were kids is vintage.

I guess my point is- and I'm not addressing you specifically- is there are plenty of folks who are willing to weigh in on how they think things should be different, when they should just put their money where their mouth is and take action and do something. Start a web site or organize a play day or a meet or whatnot and put the sweat equity into doing something that reflects the way they think something should be rather than expecting what's already in place to cater to their opinion.

Last I knew, very few promoters were doing meets in order to make a profit, so there isn't the motivation in most places to have to draw a large number of karters and accommodate a bunch of different viewpoints. Most meets are done as a labor of love because folks simply want to get together with other like-minded folks. If a bunch of guys are into pre-'72 karts and they aren't sweating needing to get as many warm bodies through the gate as possible so they can make a profit, then there is no motivation to include what they aren't interested in.

But the upside is, it's not inconcievable for someone to go and do the post-modern thing if that's what floats their boat. If vintage karting as we know it today dwindles enough in participation, then maybe down the road vintage and post vintage meets merge to make it worthwhile to hold a meet.

Then again, and maybe this is a bigger philosophical musing, maybe things are just meant to have a lifespan and die off. Perhaps in 40 years no one will care about old karts at all, and perhaps they shouldn't. Have fun and make lots of great memories today with the things and people that have meaning to you and let the future take care of itself. I think legacies are both unsustainable and irrational so you can't sweat how things go after we're gone.

[REAR]

David,

History starts at the beginning so for this reason alone the early karts will always be hot topic and since R.E.A.R. is a important part of the preservation of Americas early karting heritage some form of 'The Movement' will always be carried on.

In answer to your comment about raising the limit, in all honesty we are actually considering lowering the break off date from 1972 down to 1967 because after that year very little if any design considerations were applied to the original rear engine concept.

Another reason for the lowering of the eligability date being considered is, as others constantly lack a vision of what preservation is and continualy keep raising the eligability date for simple profit or ease we are steadfast in the knowledge that the further away we get from them the more defined, desirable, and valueable the early karts become. We also belive that the actual performance and driving 'experience associated with a rear engine kart is more than enough fun and excitement for all to enjoy for years to come.

Around here its about quality, not quanity.

Here's to the next 40...R.E.A.R.

[Tom Luttenbacher]

David, what exactly is an "old twin rail kart with two engines"?

Also was the post 72 to say 85 a boring non descript time in kart racing that know one wants to organize a meet for fear of lack of turnout.
It seems there are a some who wish to show/drive their post 72 karts and want to have R.E.A.R. change its guidelines to accomodate that few.
My thoughts are R.E.A.R should do exactly as mentioned, lowering the requirements to 1967. That may put to rest any doubts as to what kind of kart one needs to have to attend TBO's!

As for 40 years into the future, anyones guess as to what might be considered "vintage, classic or just old". I think I'll try and stick around to see tho. TL

[steveohara]

A question for historians..... was anyone still building rear engine kart chassis in 1972? I was very active in karting at that time and I can't remember anyone building any rear engine chassis. In 1971 I took my two year old Bug Sprint to Camden Ohio for the Sprint Nationals and I remember the folks from Bug insisting I could not win with the old style chassis and I had to switch to a Stinger..... they turned out to be wrong about that race but I sold tha kart as soon as I returned home and never drove a rear engined kart again. There was one guy in the race on a Blackhawk ( I think that was the name) chassis and it seems like they were still being built but the rest of the new karts were Stingers or Margay sidewinders.
In any event, it seems that there isn't much point worrying about the year built as long as REAR sticks with the basic concept of American built rear engine karts with American built engines that were available in the first 15 years of karting.
Regarding the karting equipment from the mid 70s on, I just don't think there will ever be a level of intertest in that era of karts to produce any organized groups like the early years. By then, the sport had become all about the racing and the equipment was getting pretty homoginized with the differences in design being fairly limited. To me, one of the real appeals of the early era of karting was the extreme range of ideas and designs in chassis, drive systems etc. It seems like every other kart racer must have produced at least one proprietary chain guard, muffler or intake manifold at some time and the engine models were changed more often that some racers changed underwear
Here is another vote for keeping your guidelines just as they are.... don't mess with something that works so well!
Regards,
Steve O'Hara

[REAR]

Steve,

Robron, S.A.E. and Blackhawk were a few that come to mind that were still produced in the 70's.

We have to agree with your assessment of what honestly is of historical value. It seems the cookie cutter designs that came out the 70's, 80's, 90's, are just that, same old same old.

Upon furter discussion we will be staying with the original concept and guidelines because it was brought up that a lower break off date would eliminate some pretty cool karts like the Rupp 'J' model, the Blackhawk , plus probably a few others.

Like Steve said, "it works so well".

R.E.A.R.

[robert stanton]

rupp a-bones were built in mansfield, ohio thru 1973. i purchased
the tooling in march of 1974 and within a few months were
producing the karts again. sold a few thousand in the late 70's
even gil hoarstman bought a few. wisco and comet kart sales
were still selling them. so the rupp karts did not die before the
late 70's. sorry fella's, this is fact.

[larry gibson]

As Robert said Dart kart were produced into the 70's. I have one of his 1975 Super Darts. It's not allowed at tbo but is is a true REAR engine DART kart. Larry