ALLOWABLE TIRE SIZES

[nils gustafson]

Hello Walt;
Vintage Speed tires are a selection of tires best suited for vintage karts .All VS tires 65 durometer;
The 11x6.00-5 and 10.5x5.00-5(old designation 11x4.50) are copies of the old Goodyear Blue streaks right down to the casing thread count and layout. These tires have the exact concave uninflated shape as the old GY.Blue streaks ,and will inflate to flat with only 12psi. just like old GY.B.S. These were the state of the art racing tires back in the day late 60s on.
One of the best combinations of racing tires was the GY.B.S. on the rear and the 11x3.50 Carlisle Super Slicks on the front . There are rumors that V.S. is trying to regenerate this tire also. Rubber down,thk/u.gus.

[Jim Waltz]

Nils,

So it sounds like it would be OK at REAR event to run old GY Bluestreak (I have a couple of sets), but not the replica Vintage Speed tires?

That sounds goofy. Sounds like I better have a set of "oldies but goodies" on hand if I show up for an event that I haven't run in before.

I still would like to see some sort of (relatively) comprehensive discussion on what types and sizes of tires are kosher at the various events.

Maybe that it too tall an order to be undertaken?

Does Vintage Speed have a web site, by the way?

Thanks for info!

[Rob Voska]

Jim
You are peeling the scab off old wounds. "Vintage Speed" tires are not allowed at REAR events at this time. They can post whatever they want but we have never been sent any for testing and all the tires I have seen have round edges,besides Old Goodyear Blue Streaks, Carlile's are just fine along with the Kenda, Chang Chin (and I'm forgetting some) fun kart tires and many other old tires.

Hard square edge tires are what we run just like they ran back in the day. We have the largest event in the world and very few problems and no one is complaining they can't find tires.

One of the first events I attended a guy had Dunlop SL1 tires on his kart. They are HARD tires but with a much different construction. He was on 2 wheels most of the time. How do I know? I tired running him so hard he would 2 wheel off the track. Didn't work.

I also both warned and watched an idiot that "knew better than me" run Dunlop SL4's on a early 3/4" Lancer frame with twin 91's. He worked all day getting his twin's running well as a pair. Then he started running it hard. We knew it was coming when he was going into a corner and it was pushing and raising the left rear 4-5" off the ground (old karts don't run like that) just like a new kart. I was waiting for something to break. Well he came down the straight and he tried to drive around the corner and he tried a little body butt english as it was not heading the direction he wanted. It stood up on the right rear tire like a horse and threw him off. As he was rolling the kart was bouncing off both the ground and him giving him the sound beating he deserved for being stupid. After 3-4 rolls / flips he came to a stop with both engines broken off and a bent kart. He was laying there out cold for maybe 30-40 seconds and we all rushed to the idiots aid. Don't forget he could have just as easy been DEAD! After a while we walked him to his trailer and he passed out cold. Called a meat wagon and hauled him in. Nothing like seeing a 68 year old fool with a bunch of road rash laying in his trailer unconsious.

Sorry if this don't sound like I feel sorry for the dumb ass. I DON'T!

I was at quincy the first year and saw blood and people hurt because of their stupidty and a lack of promoter integrity.

The Big One (Thank God) has been a safe event. We work hard to keep it that way. We inforce rules even when it is hard. It's not fun for us telling someone that can't run their stuff but we do. We turned 3 people away this year........ Our rules are simple and been in force sence the inception of REAR. In hind sight, could we have done better?....maybe, but we did it. Don't see anyone else stepping up to the plate to give guys with late 50's and early 60's equipment a place to run.

[Tom Smith]

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[Russ Smith]

I tip my hat to Rob and Bob for sticking to their guns. Especially since it's becoming the norm for promoters to allow anything with a few vintage parts slapped on a late model chassis.

[Rob Voska]

Tom pictures are of Ralph Spitahuler. Blue Streaks or Super Slicks I believe.

[Jim Waltz]

Rob,

To a certain extent I am glad I am peeling scabs off of old wounds.

Though I had a mini bike with a V-700 back in '61 and my buddy was building some fairly nice home-built karts (one with a 5 Port V 700 - scared me half to death - no brakes to speak of) I didn't get into kart racing until 11 years ago. Three Supersportsman Heavy club championships later and I discovered vintage karting. Now I'm hooked. I blame Ives.

So, I'm a relative newcomer to vintage karting, and I have discovered these UNWRITTEN rules, which make it a bit of a mystery to know what to build and/or buy.

I also did not realize that TBO is a REAR event. I'm originally an Ohio boy, by the way. I do know that my buds like Terry Ives and Ernie Fisher talk about how the vintage events must be controlled or the sport will go the way of the past - lots of serious accidents and dwindling participation - so I am in FULL SUPPORT of what you guys are doing. I've already done enough 2-wheeling when they switched us to stickies to last me a lifetime.

Which brings me back to my ORIGINAL request when I started this string........................

Can (has?) someone write up the "rules" regarding tire sizes and types so that newcomers like myself can know what tires are allowed?

I will be glad to word process and publish as a PDF that can be posted and shared.

If someone will take a rough first cut, I will publish as a draft for comment and perhaps we can have a reference to help those who think what we do is neat, but are afraid to join in (or get pissed and leave when they are told they can't run because of rules they were not aware of).

Anyone????????

[nils gustafson]

Hello Bob; Thanks for the opportunity to describe the Vintage Speed line; I have enclosed photos of a slightly used11x6.00-5 GY BS and a VS copy. I don’t think the old GYBS had that extreme square edge that theVS Duro10x 410 /350 -5 has, but we came as close as possible on our VSGY copy.
I sent some early VS tires to you or Rob though Jeff Campbell about 5 years ago for testing. Among those was the very square edge Duro 410/3.50-5 as in this pic , The word I got from Jeff was that there was a problem in that they mounted too easily, and this might be a problem .We have sold 100s and there hasn’t been a problem . Also in that box was some early 11x6.00-5 Duro stock which had a more modern look B4 we manufactured the new VS- GYBS copy, Maybe this is where the confusion is?? I also sent you a personal email B4 the 09 BO to send you samples and no reply.
There are a few Duro VS tires which might not fit the BO , but in order to stay financially level ( “bearly”) with this endeavor ; I try to support all events. I have been asked many times for a vintage 4” front slick, but just supporting just one event will never make it financially possible to invest in new tires in this very small market . I am not in this for a living, only trying to support the various visions of vintage karting. Everyone can pick, and chose what ever tire suites their program.
Thanks for the opportunity to explain in detail.
Bob ,I would be willing to send more samples, and pics, but won’t waste shipping fees if these pics can’t secure some optimism .
Thanks ,gus.

PS . Walt, my wed site is< http://www.arrowracing.com> click on the kart tires for more info, and click again to make coy larger.

[Ronald Cubel]

Gus, you said?

" I try to support all events. I have been asked many times for a vintage 4” front slick, but just supporting just one event will never make it financially possible to invest in new tires in this very small market "

What does that mean? The lack of a 4" nero front slick is one of the biggist problems we have in Vintage Kart restorations today. I hope you are not just trying to give people just tires to RACE with, that would be a bad thing to do to the rest of us. The 4" front has nothing to do with the REAR event it has to do with MOST EARLY Vintage Karts being restored to original.

Ron Cubel
UVKA President

[nils gustafson]

Hello Ron; What does this mean ? just as I said, I have to support all events ,everyone who is sticking their neck out and $$$$ for exact vintage repos also need support to continue futher projects. I am only trying to zero in on why VS tires are banned at TBO.
We try to make tire repos as close to NOS as possible, and with todays manufacturing procedures, and ISO international standards ( we have to include liability considerations in design ), exact exact is not always completely possible, Its not a simple 1950s world anymore, and its a complicated road, the Duro VS 11x6.00, and 10.5x5.00 (long story, should have been marked 11x4.50-5) took 2 years to complete with testing. So if some of these tires happen to perform good for racing it was not my sole intension.
This complex world does have its benefits with the internet, and this great informative Rear forum to hash things out.
Always appreciate your opinion and support, u have been really helpful in zeroing in on my current and future projects, gus.