Is this what this is about?

[Mike Reller]

If I can't dump a couple grand into a 101 so I can show the world how fast it can go before it grenades, am I a poser? For the guys who want to do that, have at it. I had those days in the 60's.

[Tom Smith]

I saw this thing in front of me at Quincy in the 1st heat and was afraid to get too close so I layed back and waited for him to bicycle off the track which he did. The final heat was inverted so I was on the outside pole just in front of him. He took himself and the pole position driver out at the starting line. In reality it should be about the kart and the driver. In this case they were both fucked up.

vintage what .JPG

(803.67 KiB) Not downloaded yet

[Rob Voska]

Isn't that Farmers kart? That was involved in the big crash at Quincy the first year where Terry got torn up along with a bunch of equipment?

[Tom Smith]

That it is, I took a picture of it because it was the most bastard vintage kart there.

[david a luciani]

now that kart is truely a sorta kinda vintage/modern mess.
THOSE are the karts we should be trying to get gone.
i wasn't there back in the day but i've never seen a vintage picture of a vintage kart set up that way.

enough said.
dave

[Tom Smith]

THOSE are the karts we should be trying to get gone.
That's what a lot of people kept trying to tell the VKA pukes.

[steveohara]

hey, maybe if the dude that ran Carl into the bales had those big Dunlop tires on his kart he might have been able to handle that little bend in the straight at start/finish
SO

[david a luciani]

WOW,
this one i think even beats out your worst of selection Tom.
yep that would be four engines on that puppy.
MUCH BETTER than three!!!!
i can't even understand why it was built.
now if it was a dragster kart it might make some sort of sense.
dave

[Jeff Campbell]

Dave,
That kart with 4 engines is a piece of history, not kart racing history, ... Richard Peck brought it to New Castle for display / show, it was not run on the track. The kart was built for running at the Bonneville Salt flats some years ago. The rules changed and the kart never was able to make speed record attempt at the flats.

Rob,
I already saw this video with the racing crash. I think you are right, nobody can blame the track, only a person(s) can take blame. The people who set up the track and those who chose to race on it can only blame themselves. The track was wet, nobody should have been allowed to race on a wet track. Hay bails are not safe for defining track boundries since people will run along them to get the best line, one touch and you are toast ... the people who set up the track should not have put the bails there. Drivers of vintage karts must be aware that our more open wheels catch on hay bails MUCH easier than modern karts, don't drive on a track where you will be running close along any hay bails. The drivers were running too hard for the conditions present, people and karts should not get "damaged" at any vintage karting event, whether one calls it racing or lapping ... we all need to be sensible, safe and look out for each other as much as possible.

The worst karting accident I ever had was about 20 years ago at a track where hay bails defined the track edge at the exit point of a fast hairpin turn, I only nipped that hay bail with my left front tire, WHAMMM! it felt like someone hit me with a baseball bat as I laid in the middle of the track wondering what just happened.

Jeff

[Andy Symons]

Ah, Steve, would you really have wrapped your kart around my neck? Thank goodness it was Carl who crashed in our race and not you! But then, of course, he was actually in that race and not just picking selected screen shots from the video afterwards.

The bottom line is that the flag was there and the guy who got there first was going to win and neither of us lifted - Carl already described his feelings on the concept quite eloquently. Could an argument be made that one of us should have eased off? Yup. But is there a racer anywhere who couldn't understand holding a WOT at that moment? But that aside, and making no excuses for it, I feel the need to address your indictment of my actions during the last lap.

What you don't see when you compare the two views you include in your condemnation of my - let me get this right - boneheaded, inexcusable negligence, is the complete difference in lines taken by both Carl and me on the penultimate and last lap of that race. You also don't see the bump in the track which, if you took that corner by cutting the apex tight, got you some air time and a slide to the outside. Carl was experimenting with a wider line through the first portion of the turn so as to hit the bump more straight on and I was cutting the apex as tight as I could - I'm light and it didn't affect me too much and was a lot of fun besides (remember the cover of the November, '61 Racing Karts magazine?). There are photos of the event that show me getting about 6" of air. When I drove my normal line, flat out through that turn, I'd wind up well outside that white line you mention and much closer to the bales than you see us on the white flag lap.

That is because on the second last lap I followed Carl through that turn, watching his line and judging the speed differential. If you watch me overtake him on the straightaway on the last lap you can see how well my 820 was running that day on this wide open track. Therefore, neither one of us goes much over the white line on the video. On that last lap, Carl again went wider than me while I took my straighter line. We both looked over at each other and then both modified our lines as it became obvious we would meet up at the finish. The change in both lines and the resulting high speed meeting at the finish on those modified lines, plus the bump, is what produced the slides you see in the video. When Carl's slide took him onto a damp area very near the bales, left over from the rainstorm we'd had earlier, there was nothing he could do.

You cannot divorce the positions of the karts during the slide to the outside and Carl's meeting with the bales from the location of the finish line. You state that it happened after the checkered flag was waved and the race was over. That's like saying a high dive is over when your feet leave the board and now you have a choice whether you want to continue toward the water or go someplace else. The die was cast and the starter waving his flag had nothing to do with what the physics of motion, friction and inertia had already decreed based on our decisions about our lines.

Finally, I thank you for your concern about our sport and your message to Carl about his well-being. I know your attack on me wasn't personal but I'm confused why it felt that way. Incidentally, Carl and I had a great time this past Sunday at Oreville smelling the caster, talking and joking, and enjoying our weekly races and will be running against each other again at Mifflintown on July 2nd. He is my friend.

Andy Symons